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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
I think Haste near completed gens is actually a good design? It appears to be 12m radius, then 5s after leaving. That all feels pretty reasonable.
It does nothing at the start of the game, and very little for killers trying to hold a 3-gen. It'll give some help to killers whose last gens are scattered all over the map, and in the endgame it's NOED minus the oppressive Exposed effect. My immediate concern would be that it's probably gross if it stacks with NOED.
For general situations, if it's active it means the killer isn't harassing the gens that people are actually working on, so I'm kind of ok with that.
+1
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
The problem is the way they calculate radii for everything but Reassurance, especially Gideon and Midwich. RPD too. One gen being finished is going to cover around 20% of the map and effectively be adjacent to probably two others.
But you also have things like the upstairs gens on Hawkins/Toba, not to mention central gens on maps like Dead Dawg.
And then, yeah. Endgame is literally the entire map.
If old MFT was a problem because it provided invisible haste for free, this is an even bigger problem. Fix the radius issue (for everything), and it's largely fine.
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![[Dead By Daylight] Feature, or Bug? We Inflict It, You Decide - Page 13 (3)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw== "[Dead By Daylight] Feature, or Bug? We Inflict It, You Decide - Page 13 (3)")
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
There are lots of numbers in that perk that can be tweaked, I think the design overall is fine. Maybe it needs to be 8m or even 6m radius, maybe the haste needs to be 3% or scale with number of completed gens. Maybe have the perk shut off for endgame, or relocate to be within distance of a gate rather than within distance of gens.
I'm a bit worried about the one that causes exposed and grants a long aura read when hooking. That thing is pretty loaded for a single perk slot.
+1
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
I'm not too concerned about that, having run Furtive Chase/Nemesis/MYC builds in the past, and even that could be hard to capitalize on with 60 seconds AND Oblivious. 20 seconds of Exposed isn't much when you likely have to go across the map, and it's easily identifiable very quickly. Hubris is 20 seconds and that's in your face. Even if it's an M1 killer with a cross-map teleport, it takes them around 5 seconds just to teleport. Blight/Nurse can't really use it. Spirit might be able to, but she'll likely have to burn her power just getting there. Dredge in Nightfall is probably the scariest scenario unless I'm missing something.
I think it could probably lose the scream when obsession switches, but it needs to have some kind of obsession switching mechanic or it's just "f*ck whoever was randomly picked as the obsession."
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Are the remaining two gens even considered “completed” when gates are powered?
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
Sterica wrote: »
Are the remaining two gens even considered “completed” when gates are powered?
I don't think we've had any player effects like this that we could use to check. Map effects will trigger off them, eg all the sliding doors on The Game will open, or the garage door on Gas Heaven. They certainly aren't not-completed, as you can't Wiretap the last two gens.
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heenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
November 2023
I believe they're considered unfinished but entity blocked.
M A G I K A Z A M
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
I'm 4/4 tonight on someone being camped and hard tunnelled first three hooks and out.
It was my turn twice. First time, a Plague with the Iri that gives her red puke every gen, so she just stood 16m away with it permanently up. Second time, it was against a Sadako on Hawkins, which takes second place in the sh*tbag olympics to the Trapper who slugged me and left me to bleed out because I disarmed two of his traps. Not guessing here. That was his explaination for "Why bleed me out?"
Guess it's time to put Reassurance back on permanently while BHVR continues to encourage people to be the most miserable sh*tbag assholes imaginable.
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
Yeah, I had one today where someone playing the fancy RE Blight skin decided to bleed me out from the first down. Took him like eight knockdowns on me before I died, he got zero hooks in that time. He ended up getting three kills because two of the people did a terrible job trying to help me while I was at like three seconds left on bleed out.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
This weekend, after a game where an Adam decided to bodyblock the gate, I updated and got OBS working again, and immediately got an Iri Head Huntress slugging people and then 'humping' them while they waited for bleed out, insta-downing the people who came to try to salvage, a Meg who bodyblocked me in a corner when I was cleansing a totem, and dodged a lobby with someone named "G4sAll*slur*". Reported all three to BHVR's support site, and today got two blank emails saying "ticket #xxxxxx requires your attention. If you do nothing, it will be automatically closed." No link to anything, and their support site uses a different account system (zendesk, and not needed for reporting) than BHVR's main site, which you can't create accounts on. No in-game notifications that action had been taken either.
A+ work here, BHVR.
I don't know what's going on, but it's been BAD lately. Even worse than when the kiddies are off for holidays and sh*t.
E: I say that, and then I try to play two games. An Oni that just stands 16m away from the hook with his power ready to block unhooks/anti-facecamping, and a Pig doing the same, but crouched.
This is f*cking unplayable.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
The mobile version is up to some weird-ass sh*t.
They're debuting both a new hide and seek mode that will have modified maps designed for pure stealth, as well as a new set of stealth perks.
And a new kind of cosmetic for (original) survivors that is... uh...
A new/different game mode that does a better job preventing toxic bullsh*t would be pretty welcome, and the main game has certainly been doing its best to obliterate stealth as an option for the last couple years. But mobile also did mori variations starting like two years ago, so even if this is the bee's knees, I wouldn't expect much for a long time.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Stealth got shied away from because it makes for boring gameplay as hiders sit around and seekers fruitlessly search. Looping and more macro strategies made for more compelling gameplay.
Evolve is a good example as to why that kind of gameplay doesn’t work. It’s always why the granddaddy of symmetrical multiplayer, Splinter Cell, had a core mechanic that forced spies to expose themselves for long stretches of time.
And alt game modes will inevitably develop their own toxic behaviors. Maybe worse since bvhr would likely keep balance focus on the bread and butter normal trials.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
Sterica wrote: »
Stealth got shied away from because it makes for boring gameplay as hiders sit around and seekers fruitlessly search. Looping and more macro strategies made for more compelling gameplay.
Evolve is a good example as to why that kind of gameplay doesn’t work. It’s always why the granddaddy of symmetrical multiplayer, Splinter Cell, had a core mechanic that forced spies to expose themselves for long stretches of time.
And alt game modes will inevitably develop their own toxic behaviors. Maybe worse since bvhr would likely keep balance focus on the bread and butter normal trials.
Stealth was high risk, high reward, but it was never meta. It's healthier for the game for there to be viable options for both hiding and chasing, and is a good option for beginners, being both intuitive and minimal map knowledge needed. There's also no way you can tell me Lucky Break, Bite the Bullet, or Head On plays are boring. It went away because Iron Will was gutted, and they've been releasing a hojillion ridiculously powerful aura reading perks since then. Even back when BBQ, Nurse's, and Bitter Murmur were the only real aura perks, it's not like killers were completely lost or chasing wasn't the primary activity.
But now? Kick a gen, automatically know if there's anybody near. Open a locker, know where the entire team is. You can't just duck in a locker for a few seconds when a hook is about to happen to keep yourself safe and hidden like you used to be able to. You need multiple perks and even that doesn't necessarily help since they're apparently in no hurry to fix the UW bug showing screams that never happened.
I do agree that there should be mechanics in place to prevent permanent stealthing, but that's a whole different discussion, alongside all the other possible ways of griefing that exist which BHVR continues to ignore. That's pretty rare though, and even moreso nowadays with all those effectively free global intel perks.
E: And at the moment, such a thing would 100% be abused to make slugging for the 4k even worse.
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
Nowhere to Hide and Ultimate Weapon are both absurdly good at finding people. It would maybe be ok to have tracking that good if you could spend a perk to negate the tracking on yourself, but the fact you need two separate perks to block both of those means if you only spend one perk, in practice you're only 50-50 to actually be able to block the tracking you encounter in any given game (because usually killers don't bother running both)
I'm still salty about Ultimate Weapon having the random bonus Blindness effect that it doesn't need. Today's "duck you, solo queue" fail was a rando sitting on a gen less than a tile width away from me while I was fully recovered on the ground, not coming over to pick me up because UW blindness prevented them from knowing I was there. If I was on comms, that would have been like two seconds to pick me up, but since I'm not, that's a free bonus hook and pressure for the killer.
Fry on
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Things like Lucky Star are temporary ways to evade the killer, and function fine that way. Hiding being a primary game mechanic would be dull for both sides, is what I’m saying.
I’m not a fan of perks that just flat-out negate whole parts of one side’s kit. Not that sh*t like Lightborn and Distortion are super OP, but it’s not great to bring something and have it be totally nullified. Perks like Lucky Star can be countered through game knowledge.
Ultimate Weapon is overturned. Maybe increase the cooldown and make it a 1-2 second aura reading. Or just make it a one-shot scan after you search the locker which would justify the blind. As opposed to now where it turns you into a walking interrupt machine for half a minute.
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
Distortion is totally fine. It doesn't negate an entire killer perk, it negates 1/4 of a killer perk, because the killer can still read auras fine on the other three survivors. If all four survivors bring it, trading one killer perk for four survivor perks is fine for the killer. If exactly three survivors bring it, that's potentially going to trick the killer into tunneling somebody out (if they weren't going to do that anyway, haha) which might be a net bad for the survivors.
And distortion can totally run out, especially in the case where the killer is running multiple aura reads for some reason. So it's not likely to counter multiple perks by itself for very long.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
I completely forgot Lucky Star even hid anything and have only ever seen it used for the aura reads on locker exit.
And killer powers are far more egregious. Healing build? Oops, it's Plague/Tombstone Myers. Smash Hit? Sorry, it's a Nurse/Nemmy/Trickster. Anything relating to unhooking? Condemn Sadako/Tombstone/Knockout sh*tbag.
I do think a more hidey mode could work, but obviously major changes needed, like shrinking the maps, removing pallets, speeding up gens, etc. I heavily disagree that people will always find ways to be toxic. In chat or find some way to emote at each other? Sure, but very few other games give players the ability to hold the game hostage for any appreciable length of time the way DBD does with its killers. Even just allowing no-penalty DCs after 10 minutes or with two people left would be a massive improvement that has no victims. It's frankly f*cking insane that they allow, empower, and sh*t, encourage people to act like this to fellow players. I can only imagine that they think that actually taking action against it will spark an outcry from all the powertripping sh*tbags who think they're owed it.
Speaking of which... Another run of miserable sh*tbags today. Pretty close to just giving up in disgust until Chucky, though unless they nerf Scamper, it's going to be awful. Comp players are already putting him in busted tier on about Spirit's level, but just 'lol I win the chase' as soon as his power's off CD, so the skill floor is low enough any asshole can do it.
Iri Wesker with four slowdown for a miserable grind of a game, ending with him slugging me to spend the entire bleedout timer looking for the last person in the corner, just picking up/dropping their item, to be followed by a Oni who just did loops around the hook with his entire power to instantly tunnel off it and then repeat, to be followed by a Demo on Hawkins who ragequit after one gen accusing someone of speedhacking. It was an 8k hour mid-tier streamer running MFT, Auto Didact, Mettle, and WGLF. They were streaming. The Demo kept trying and missing stupid shreds, so clearly hacks. Because that's where the killer playerbase is at right now.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Plague’s kit bugs me because besides shutting down healing it’s supposed to encourage a hard choice, but the choice is…not hard. Don’t heal unless you need to force the Plague into some far-off corner to get the last gen done.
So many Plague matches lost because players just slurp down fountains like the finest ambrosia.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
Sterica wrote: »
Plague’s kit bugs me because besides shutting down healing it’s supposed to encourage a hard choice, but the choice is…not hard. Don’t heal unless you need to force the Plague into some far-off corner to get the last gen done.
So many Plague matches lost because players just slurp down fountains like the finest ambrosia.
I really hate her kit too. I wish she'd get a full rework, but she's probably like 20th down the list for that. Against good teams, she's just a tall M1 killer. But against everybody else? It promotes so many frustrating things and empowers camping/tunnelling way too much. She completely counters literally every healing perk in the game. She gets injures for free and passively which lets her snowball and camp easily, plus prevent/force trades. How loud vomiting lets her track and tunnel easily (and is a genuine concern for people who are physically sickened by it). Even if that's all she did, she'd still be stronger than Legion, but on top of that, she also gets massive power spikes that let her down people with very little or no counterplay depending on the loop, also promoting slugging. And since it's so dangerous to cleanse/so easy to injure, she gets massive value from Thanatophobia which makes every other gen regression perk, already oppressive when stacked, that much stronger. Add to this multiple broken add-ons, and I genuinely think the only reason she isn't more hated is because she's not commonly played since you don't really get to do sh*t against a good team, which can make her frustrating.
I'm not sure how you'd fix her though, especially not without upsetting all the Reddit and Twitter killers. Maybe change Broken to Exposed so as to not invalidate all healing, and fountains auto-cleanse after 70 seconds so you actually have to grab them relatively quickly if you want to use them? I dunno.
E:
Oh, this new hide and seek mobile DBD game mode will have multiple killers. Uh. Hm.E2:
I just learned a new way to bug out the guard AI vs Knight. If a guard is hunting you and you drop a pallet, it ALWAYS 100% goes to the pallet first. So you can throw the pallet (preferably between you and the Knight), turn around, and then just run past the guard and it'll completely ignore you as long you don't touch it until taps the pallet first.ArcTangent on
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Much like Trickster, she needs to have the standard penalty for damaging with her power. It's an even easier down if you get them to full infection while on top of them, which makes her a weird oppressive pseudo-ranged killer for a period. It probably shouldn't be a stream, or at the very least the empowered version shouldn't be. Her whole problem is that she's OP against less experienced players but just kinda boring against more experienced players as her power basically shuts off after a point.
In other news people really don't know how to play against Twins. I had maybe one person who knew to crush Victor on pounce whiffs.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
Blegh. Turns out, it's just a reskinned prop hunt.
As if there aren't enough of those.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Would killers even get their powers?
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
I've had this f*cking "take two hits with Endurance" challenge on for like a week and still haven't gotten a single hit. When I run OTR/DH, someone else gets tunnelled and I'm one-hooked. When I run MFT, I get completely ignored. I brought a stypic twice and it was a Plague and an M2 only Billy who only got two downs. This should be f*cking free, and yet... It's driving me mad.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
I had a similar experience with grab a new item in the trial and escape with it. My last session I was escaping most matches, but suddenly it’s tunneling or my team letting me die on first hook. Took a mirror Myers to get it over with.
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
ArcTangent wrote: »
I've had this f*cking "take two hits with Endurance" challenge on for like a week and still haven't gotten a single hit. When I run OTR/DH, someone else gets tunnelled and I'm one-hooked. When I run MFT, I get completely ignored. I brought a stypic twice and it was a Plague and an M2 only Billy who only got two downs. This should be f*cking free, and yet... It's driving me mad.
Just take OTR and aggressively take the first chase. Either get tunneled out, or go interfere with other chases. It's pretty easy.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
I know I could basically throw to get it, but it's like putting on Unbreakable or Deliverance. As soon as you do, you'll get zero use out of it. It's just frustrating, ironically, after a week of nonstop tunnelling and other bullsh*t.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
BHVR confirmed that they did make an unannounced change to MMR (raising the softcap) a few weeks back, and it's reconfigured enough that people are being affected.
Naturally, this has had the same effect as when they first introduced it, that streamers and aggrieved killers are now upset as sh*t about not being handed people to stomp effortlessly and therefore it's an excuse to play as miserably as imaginable because they're up from losing 2% of their games to 10% of their games. Some of these same people were a month ago bitching that they have 8k hours and are being matched against people with 10.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
I’ve seen streamers complaining mostly because of half-hour queues.
And let’s not act like people weren’t queuing up SWF explicitly to make some new killer’s match complete misery
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
I'm familiar with Otz/Hens/etc's Hardcore Survivor, yes. It's so much fun when we do it, but awful when the people we play against do it.
Which is also kind of my point. Like, the complaint they have with stricter MMR is that then all they face are Nurses and Blights on survivor, or can no longer on a whim, take 4 hours on a random day and put up a 50 win streak on whoever they feel like on killer. Stomping randos is probably good for their traffic, but it's fudamentally unhealthy for the game. On both sides. But they also just spent a month complaining about being matched with/against baby survivors/killers. At the very least, pick a lane.
But the real solution is fixing the game's economy (items, add-ons, and offerings) and smoothing out the power level between both solo queue and SWFs, AND killer powers... which probably requires a fundamental rebuilding of both core mechanics as well as the playerbase's mentality, so I don't see that happening any time soon. For now, I'm a fan of tightening the MMR to push the sweatlords all together, though I can't recall the last time I saw an actual honest to god attempted bully squad.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Double XP for the next week, with daily login bonuses totaling 500K BP, 1K Shards, and 10 Fragments.
Increased chance for Community Choice Maps: Dead Dawg Saloon, The Game, Midwich Elementary School, Gas Heaven, The Underground Complex and Mount Ormond Resort
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
Time to slap on some pallet mulching builds, because yeesh.
Though only Gas Heaven and Ormond are not heavily killer sided, so expect to just see a lot of map offerings regardless.
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Fry Registered User regular
November 2023
I still have no idea how to have a chase longer than about 10 seconds on Dead Dawg if I'm anywhere on the map other than main building. And I'm probably not even using main correctly (other than trying to hit fast vaults on the front and upstairs windows)
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023
Fry wrote: »
I still have no idea how to have a chase longer than about 10 seconds on Dead Dawg if I'm anywhere on the map other than main building. And I'm probably not even using main correctly (other than trying to hit fast vaults on the front and upstairs windows)
You basically need to get stuns at all the pallets in order to be able to connect them to anywhere else, they're so ridiculously unsafe. Knowing how to vacuum helps. The non-gallows side maze tiles CAN be good if you get a good setup, but even with windows, there's so much variation there that you're more likely to screw yourself by just running into dead ends.
But yeah. It's brutal, it's tiny, and the only even halfway decent structure is smack dab in the middle of the map with nothing connected to it on three sides.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Black Friday sale is up, and more recent content is on sale. Alien, Nicholas Cage, Singularity Chapter, although not exactly at stellar prices (17% off for Alien Chapter). Other more recent chapter also getting deeper discounts, so expect more Knights.
Stranger Things chapter is, unsurprisingly, not on sale.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
Post PTB Dev Update
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/420
tl;dr
Chucky getting two very tiny nerfs to Scamper speed and slows down on missed Slices. Add-ons being changed, but doesn't say how.Batteries Included now deactivates in end-game because all gens were powered, giving a functionally mapwide speed boost.
Trickster throw rate down to 3 per second from 4. Main Event takes 8 knives instead of 6. Add-ons affecting Main Event have basically all been gutted.
---
Trickster changes are decent, but I doubt enough. He still obliterates you on any non-high wall loop AND when you try to leave a loop. I really doubt that adding .2 seconds to Scamper is anywhere near enough. I'm not sure it's really fixable in this state though. It's Legion's Frenzy, but you can down people with it, and all the problems that obviously has.
E:
Also, I f*cking FINALLY got 3 notifications in the last two days about 'actions being taken' for people I reported weeks ago. I've only played 1-2 games maybe every other day the last week or so, and most have been unnotable. Though there was the one Iri Wesker I felt I did an amazing job running at the start despite the huge handicap, only for a single solo person gen to be done, a second at like 20%, and the Rebecca crouched 15 feet away who went down 10 seconds later. I was then slugged for almost my entire bleedout.ArcTangent on
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
I think they should have coded the gens to have completed vs not in endgame, but probably a spaghetti code thing.
It’s weird since Hope is a flat speed boost with no requirements. On one hand I’m glad bhvr is not creating a haste arms race by nerfing this and MFT, but I feel they could have given the perk something during endgame like basic attacks inflicting deep wounds when near gens or showing survivor auras very close to completed gens.
I still think Trickster is going to suck to go against until they give him a goddamn “wipe” codown when he injures with his knives.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
I think it still would've/will be a problem on 2 floor maps, but that's also more spaghetti code than the actual perk. They coded Reassurance to work as a sphere. It's weird that literally nothing else does.
And any killer sending themselves to Gideon/Midwich/RPD you already know you're in for some sweatlord being an utter bastard.
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023 edited November 2023
So here’s how prop hunt on mobile works:
-2 Killers and Eight Survivors
-It doesn’t look like powers function, as I saw mostly two Trappers and no traps ever. Hag was on some promo screens, so it may be like survivor where you can pick whoever but they all play the same-
-Killers have no real perks except an altered whispers that lets you know when any survivors are within a 32m radius of you.
-Survivors can be several props: generators, hooks, lockers, totems, chests, and pallets are among those I saw
-You have a meter as a survivor that drains while stationary. It refills while moving, and creates a loud noise notification and reveals you to the killers for a period if it runs out
-Survivors have two powers: change their disguise on a lengthier cooldown, and expose a nearby survivor to killers. Yes, it has a competitive angle among the survivors to be the last one standing (I didn’t see anything about Killers getting more kills)
-Survivors die in one hit, and no loop mechanics apply as far as I can tell (novaulting, pallet dropping, scratch marks, bloodlust, etc). Basically you are dead if a killer finds you, and there’s no hook mechanics either. You just die.Seems like game has already devolved into people changing to totems and abusing the smaller profile to move around and charge the expos mechanic to reveal players trying to play normally. Truth is that DBD has a lot of rules regarding object spawns, so making a mode hiding as them doesn’t work too well. Being a gen or hook is a death sentence due to that reason and their size, whereas chests and especially totems can at least abuse their lower profile to just avoid the killer’s sight.
And it’s dbd, so having it be an internal competition among survivors means you’re going to get asshole behavior right away.
Sterica on
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Sterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
November 2023
Batteries Not Included reverted to original function. Weird but it was extremely underwhelming otherwise
Also code THANKYOUFOR60M for a million BP and a few thousand shards.
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ArcTangent Registered User regular
November 2023 edited November 2023
Updates roadmap
Blight finally getting add-ons hopefully gutted. I'd expect STBFL major nerf. Astounding that Ultimate Weapon isn't being touched for five to six MORE months. Not sure what the deal with Mangled is. Maybe they've noticed that any add-on that applies it, along with Sloppy, has a ridiculously elevated kill rate or something. Hopefully whatever the 3-gen 'solution' is doesn't suck since apparently that's all survivors are getting for the first half of the year.
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