Adding a non-Buckeye to Ohio State football’s 2024 roster: Buckeye Talk Podcast (2024)

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Nathan Baird and Andrew Gillis discuss adding players to the Ohio State football’s roster.

The trio analyzes the potential impact of these additions and discusses the current roster’s strengths and weaknesses. They each select one player from outside the roster to add to the team on both offense and defense. The offensive selections include an offensive lineman, a tight end, and a quarterback. While the defensive sections include two defensive linemen and a linebacker.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:04.5)

Welcome back to the book I talk I’m Stephen Means that’s Nathan Baird and that’s Andrew Gillis. This is your Monday pod as Ohio State picks back up with spring practice on Tuesday, we won’t be in there watching practice, but we will be talking with Ryan day after practice number three of the spring practice so get the text

Stephen Means (00:34.454)

years ago. We’ve done a lot of pods. I’m not that I’m thinking about things we’ve done every idea under the sun that you can think of Nathan over the last four or five years here on this pod. So it does feel like sometimes you’re doing things again. But listen, the landscape has changed the names you’re talking about have changed but the game stays the same is still college football. We are going to do an exercise where we’re going to pick one player on both sides of the ball from anywhere in college football that’s not on Ohio State football’s roster right now. If you could add that player to this roster.

Who would that be? It could be a quarterback, it could be a left tackle, it can be a defensive tackle, it can be a linebacker, anybody you want. If you could add them to this roster right now, no free of charge, no nothing. You can just add them for free who.

would it be? And I think it’s a great way to just talk about where we think this team’s not flaws are, but where it’s non strengths. Because I don’t know if there’s any weaknesses as of right now outside of offensive line and quarterback, but those might not be weaknesses. By the time we get to the season, they’re just things we don’t have answers to. But it is a way to talk about where we think this team could use a massive upgrade of talent. And so Andrew, we’re gonna start with offense. We’re gonna let you go first with the offense.

First of all, before you get to who you chose, just talk about your process and how you came to the decision for why you chose that person.

Andrew (01:56.99)

Yeah, so I looked at a couple of different things. This was actually to me far more interesting than the defensive side of the ball. Defense was a little bit, you know, maybe harder in some ways, because you could really kind of stretch it and you’re like, where do I go? Who do I pick? With offense, for me, there were a couple of different things that I looked at. It was, do I take a quarterback and do you take a known quarterback upgrade?

that you’re saying, you know what, this is going to be great. This is going to be, you know, this is just like, do you feel good about this position? Do you feel terrible about this position? You know, that was a, you know, that was a really kind of difficult, difficult play for me. So what I did when I did this was I went for what does Ohio State need?

And that is why I picked an offensive lineman. And that is why I picked Will Campbell out of LSU. He is the left tackle for that team. He started as a true freshman in 2022. He was a class of 2022 player. So 22, 23, he’s going into his third year. The offensive tackle class this year is pretty good. You look at the guys that are in it, you have Joe Alt, you have Olu Fashanu.

You feel good about the top of that room, but Will Campbell is up there as well. When you look at his PFF grades, he’s a really good pass blocker, but he’s also a really good run blocker. You know, according to the PFF grades, their wins above average metric, you know, PFF does a lot of interesting things with their numbers. The three players that are ahead of him since 2022 are Joe Alt, Talis Fuagga, and J.C. Latham.

Those are dudes that are really talented football players. So with Will Campbell, I immediately went, OK, who is the best offensive lineman that I can get and who can I put to anchor this offensive line on the left side that you just feel great about going into the year? Could I have taken an upgraded quarterback over Will Howard? Yeah, probably. Could I have taken, you know, an elite tight end? Maybe. Sure.

Andrew (04:19.97)

Can I even gone on the on the interior and found a true like run, you know, just run grading guard to help solidify the interior and hope you can figure out your tackle situation. Yeah. But I just looked at this tackle spot and went, you know what, this guy he’s looking on a first round trajectory. I mean, this is a elite, elite football player. And I, when you have a, when you have a left tackle like this, it was just hard for me to pass up.

So we’ll cable out of LSU.

Stephen Means (04:56.972)

So Will Campbell, a two year starter at LSU in 2022, he played 882 snaps this past year, he played 805 snaps, 75.4 overall PFF grade in 2022. This past year he upped that to 82.8. All his snaps have come at left tackle, which to Andrew’s point, I mean, if you’re upgrading a spot here, if it felt like Josh Simmons was fine, but you can go get a guy who according to PFF is the top returning tackle in the country, Nathan.

Didn’t give up a single sack last year, gave up 17 pressures, but no sacks in 2023. Any consideration to the LSU left tackle.

Nathan Baird (05:33.019)

No, yeah, this is probably who I would have taken to if I were going offensive line. It’s just, this whole exercise is just looking at places where Ohio State either is not or appears to not be elite. They’re elite at any number of positions right now, even on offense, but there are some places where they’re vulnerable if they run up against an elite opponent at that position. And right now, just...

regardless of like hearing and good things about the offensive line and what, because all you hear is good news in the spring. Let’s be honest. No, I guess that’s not true. We did not hear good news about the offensive line last spring. And we’ll see once we get into like some scrimmage situations, some more competitive things, when we hopefully get to see those over the next few weeks, what this starts to look like. If it looks like last spring, again, that’s a problem. Regardless of all that, there are some guys that,

Think of it this way. It’s like, if this guy went in the transfer portal, would Ohio State do everything it could to get him here? And I think this is one of the guys, and it’s one of the positions where absolutely they would. There’s really no downside to it. You would be creating pressure. You’d be pushing someone aside, who right now projects to start on this team, but it’s at positions where the competition

Nathan Baird (07:01.775)

You know, we weren’t that far removed. We’re only a few years removed from where players like Nicholas Petit-Frere and even Paris Johnson had to really like fight and compromise sometimes to get on the field. Um, and that’s just not the case anymore. Like guys who like project as great offensive linemen, um,

are it’s an easier path. It’s either an easier path to get on the field or it’s just not hitting right now the same way. They’re not forcing their way in early. So to take an elite guy and drop him into this position group, especially because you’re in such a like take one big swing at this roster mode, it’s kind of a no brainer. I would have, it’s either him or the other guy out on my list was a guy named Kelvin Banks Jr. from Texas. And

That was a guy that I would have considered here because of, he’s an even better run blocker, I think, probably, from the things you look at than, within what Campbell is. And with what this offense is going to be, that has some value.

Stephen Means (08:11.052)

Covent Base was second on that PFF list, by the way. He was also another offensive lineman I would have considered in this position, just because it’s...

Part of it is if I still think Joshua Simmons is a starter here, but I can move him back to right tackle because I’ve got a guy who might be an NFL first round draft pick at left tackle. Why not do that, especially if it feels like they’re still exploring options on the right side of the offensive line, even though right now, I think if I had to project things out with what they actually have, I would put Simmons at left, John Donovan, Jackson at left guard, Seth McLaughlin still at center, even though he’s still learning things. And Carson has been working in there with the ones

at right guard and Josh fire at right tackle they still seem to like him there but if we can move Joshua Simmons to the other side because I’m bringing in a Kelvin Banks or I’m bringing in a Will Campbell I just if I would have gone offensive line in this position that’s probably what where I would have gone is upgraded that left tackle because it may might also mean upgrading your right tackle with what’s already on the roster.

So Nathan, you hinted at if you would have gone with the offensive line, which means you probably, you did not go with the offensive line, it sounds like. Where did you go?

Nathan Baird (09:22.663)

Well, if we all picked offensive linemen, this would get pretty boring pretty quick. So I’m gonna go to a different position, not far from the offensive line though. And Andrew sort of mentioned it in passing. There’s a position where Ohio State lost and bona fide NFL player, Cade Stover, at tight end, and do not have a bona fide like sure fire, we definitely know it, NFL player to replace him with. And so I think you go do that. And this one would be a tough fit.

Nathan Baird (09:52.283)

because it almost certainly wouldn’t happen in the way that I’m talking about it. But Colston Loveland from Michigan, not only would you be picking up just a tremendous weapon for your offense, and Ohio State saw firsthand what he can do to teams, but you’d be weakening Michigan to do it. So that really shouldn’t be that much a part of this. Anybody we’re talking about, you’re probably taking a player, with one exception of a guy that I looked at, if we talk about honorable mentions.

But you’re taking a guy who, so anybody we’re talking about, you’re taking away from some other playoff contender, most likely, like LSU’s a playoff contender, Texas is a playoff contender, Michigan, still probably a playoff contender, even with what they lost last season. So, I mean, to me, it’s just, you can’t have too many weapons, this would then make you very deep at tight end.

Assuming there’s no other, you know, anytime you’re talking about roster additions, you probably got to talk about roster subtractions. But to imagine a room now where you’re going three deep with Loveland, G Scott Jr., Will Kaczmarek, and then the Jelani Thurman’s of the world, you’re still on a four year plan with him, at least to get him to where he needs to go. So it gives him time to develop if he’s not ready yet. Just more than any of those things, though. What we’re really imagining is making the top 11 better on both sides of the ball, and this would do that.

Stephen Means (11:25.096)

Loveland’s overall production, very similar to Cade Stover’s, I think. Cade Stover one tied in at the year, but he probably could have gone with either one of them, Cade Stover 41 catches for 576 yards, five touchdowns. Loveland last year, 45 catches, 649 yards, four touchdowns. I think Loveland might also just be a better blocker doing Cade Stover’s, especially in space. So it’s just in some ways. I know, I know, I know, I know. Yeah.

Nathan Baird (11:49.107)

Don’t tell Cade Stover that. He did not react well to people questioning his blocking at the combine.

Stephen Means (11:56.5)

Shocker, Cade Stover doesn’t like it when people say he’s not that good at something physical. Who would have thought? But especially in space, inline blocking, I don’t think Cade Stover struggled that much, but out in space with some of that bubble screen stuff over last year, two years, we saw where those struggles were. So if you have a chance to get the exact same production, while maybe 10% better,

on some of those blocking plays that helps your football team. Well, also, uh, Will Kaczmarek, I think there’s some untapped potential there, but the untapped potential isn’t Caged Over to me. In Jelani, now Jelani Thurman, that untapped potential is maybe even better than what Caged Over is, but I don’t know if I’m confident he 100% gets there.

in year two and maybe he does. And if he does, and I mean, we’ll probably come back and look at this. God, they didn’t really need to upgrade that tight end because their upgrade was just a sophom*ore who just needed more reps. But for where things stand right now, I definitely did consider Colston Loveland in this situation because it’s like, can you, what if you had Caged over back on your roster and he’s a better blocker with this, with this team where when you’re, especially on offense, when you’re looking for. Potential holes.

Titan could take a step back in 2024 because it’s not an NFL draft pick on it. A day two NFL draft pick starting. What if you had a day two NFL draft pick starting, Andrew?

Andrew (13:24.926)

Yeah, when I looked at tight end, that was the other thing for me too. Like tight end, I mentioned it in passing because I did consider it. Like the three guys that I was down to, Ben Urosic, the transfer tight end from Stanford, who’s now at Georgia. I considered Mitchell Evans, who’s at Notre Dame. And then obviously Colston Loveland was on the list, too. So like I was considering those three, I think, with the offense, the way it is.

I think you could find something at tight end though, that is productive enough. And I, when I, when I mapped that out, I, I didn’t go for let’s upgrade a most important position. I mean, that’s why I didn’t do quarterback. You know, that’s why I didn’t, uh, you know, pick, you know, Hey, like, let me just add Luther Burden real quick. And then it’s Emeka, Buka, Karnel Tate, Luther Burden, and then Jeremiah Smith can maybe sit a year or maybe go forward and see resets or whatever. Like the thing that I looked at was.

Where is the greatest cause for concern? And I think you could find enough at tight end, if that makes sense. Maybe it’s not a day two pick at tight end. Yeah, that would be great for Ohio State’s offense. Yeah, that would really help Ohio State’s offense. But can you get enough from Kazmeric and Jelani Thurman and G. Scott? Like, probably. So to me, I just, I looked at tight end as...

far more of a luxury than what could be in need. So that’s why, like again, I think that all three of those players that I mentioned are very, very good players. They’re some of the best tight ends in the country. I just, I couldn’t pull the trigger on taking a tight end because to me, I think having that day two tight end like you’re talking about, I don’t know if that’s as necessary.

Stephen Means (15:12.448)

Nathan, are there any other tight ends you may be considered for this spot other than Colston?

Nathan Baird (15:17.151)

It had to be somebody, because listen, it’s not that what Ohio State has there is bad, right? Like, kind of like what Andrew’s getting at, they have good guys there. They’re just, it had to be someone of like unquestioned elite kind of, and also like an all-around skill set. I didn’t think that Ohio State would want to just go add, oh, the best blocking titan in the country. Or similarly, don’t just go add...

You know, the glorified receiver like slot tight end type who really isn’t much of a blocker. So, no, it was a short list. I thought that maybe he would be the only player and it just happens to be him this year. If there were someone else, if it was the same player, but he was at Arizona State or Wake Forest or whatever, it would be him too. The Michigan thing is only sort of a side note. It’s more, it’s more what he represents going out and getting as kind of as Andrew said, just imagine if Cade Stover.

was able to come back. Well, just go get the closest thing to Cade Stover because when you look at what this offense is going to have, it’s not the tight end as a weakness, but how much more dangerous does this offense become if it just has Cade Stover in it?

Stephen Means (16:29.912)

Okay, so I’ll go third here. Did not think I was going to be in a position to pick a quarterback, but here I am in a position to pick a quarterback. And I’m saying this, understanding that last week, Nathan and I did a pod about quarterback situations in the Big Ten, and I think we both agreed that still Ohio State is probably at the top and at worst or number two, depending on how you feel about Oregon and what they have with Dylan Gabriel and Dante Moore, but it’s still a question mark.

for Ohio State heading into the spring. And it’s a big question mark because everywhere else for the most part on this team, outside of a couple of places where it’s also just more questions and concern right now. And after the spring, we’ll see if there’s still questions or if they’ve turned into concern, mainly with the offensive line. But I don’t want to say quarterback play held Ohio State back last year. The quarterback play held Ohio State back last year. No, that’s not, quarterback play did not elevate.

Ohio State last year, the way we saw in recent years. And what I, and more I’m talking about in some of those moments late against the Michigan, against Michigan. And for you, you weigh that heavier because it is Michigan, but.

So a couple of different things go differently this year, a couple of you maybe see a little bit more development from common court across the year. Maybe those moments don’t happen. But at the end of the day, he did not elevate. And I don’t want to have to worry about quarterback when you’ve got a potential elite generational. We’re talking can we look Georgia in the eye defense? You’ve got these levels of weapons at wide receiver.

Maybe the offensive line can get to a point where it’s not the best offensive line in the country, but it’s good enough that you’re not concerned about it and then you’ve got the best running backs in the country. I just don’t want to have to worry about quarterback at all in 2022. Nathan, we spent zero time worrying about quarterback because it was CJ shroud.

Stephen Means (18:29.456)

In 2020, we spent zero time worrying about quarterback because it was Justin Fields. In 2018, I don’t think they spent a bunch of time worrying. They just wanted to know who was gonna win it. But you had two quality options in Dwayne Haskins and Joe Burhoe. So I went with George’s Carson Beck, who above 90 in PFF grades, overall stats,

3941 yards, 24 touchdowns, only six interceptions. So his raw stats very similar to Kyle McCord, at least the touchdowns and interceptions ratio, only sacked 11 times, which Ohio State’s quarterbacks kind of live in that range. They’re not getting sacked 30 plus times. They’re in the teens and low 20s.

Average yards per attempt, 9.5 and a completion percentage of 72.4. If you, I don’t know if Carson Beck is a top 10 NFL draft pick, future franchise NFL quarterback, but I do know that Nathan, and you’ve talked about this a lot, he is the epitome of what sometimes Ohio State’s quarterback needs to be in some of these games. And that’s just, don’t make mistakes, be efficient, and then be explosive when the moment calls for it. In Alabama,

Listen, I mean, they fell short to Alabama, but I don’t think anybody’s thought Georgia wasn’t one of the three best teams in college football last year, just from a talent standpoint and an eye test standpoint. If they had Carson Beck as their quarterback right now, I think my confidence meter in that Ohio State is going to win a national championship would go up significantly because you wouldn’t be worried about what the quarterback player is going to look like.

Nathan Baird (19:58.243)

Yeah, I mean, again, we saw how close this team was to national championship caliber last year, and I don’t really care about the raw stats is, you know, I like to look at the, the rate stats, the efficiency metrics. So Carson Beck last year, um, so common core 161, 64 on rating, uh, Carson Beck, 167.92 common core 9.1 yards per attempt, Carson Beck, 9.5. The big difference is. Completion percentage common core to 65.8 Carson Beck, 72.4. And one of those guys got to play with the best.

football player in the country and one of them didn’t at receiver. So it’s one of those things like if you were to just imagine if common chord was like.

8% better? Like something like that? Like 8 to 10% better? Probably no more than that. And that’s significant. And if you could point to just the Michigan game and say, oh, if he was like 8% better, this is such an unfair way to talk about people in some ways, because there was no indication really that Kamikor didn’t try and do and get everything he could out of himself to help this team win. But if you’re just talking about production, if you’re talking about 8 to 10% better production.

Um, because I think if you factor in the Marvin Harrison-ness of all this, then those numbers grow even a little wider that Carson Beck put up compared to the Comma Chord, then you might’ve been talking about last year being a national championship already. And because it was right there for them to take it, they, they were right there to beat the team that ended up winning it and I think they were better top to bottom than

a couple of the other teams that got in the tournament. I’m actually not sure they were better top to bottom than Georgia, but that’s a different conversation. But yeah, I definitely considered quarterback. I definitely considered, you know, Carson Beck was really kind of like with tight end. Carson Beck was almost like the one guy out there that I definitely think would be an upgrade for Ohio State enough that it would be worth all that would go along with just adding somebody else in. You can’t really add another quarterback into that room at this point. You can’t go six.

Nathan Baird (22:02.099)

So we’re really talking about fanciful stuff here. But down the, farther down the list, like I didn’t really think about Quinn Uris here. I don’t think in some of those important efficiency metrics and stuff like that, he doesn’t quite impress me as much as some of these other guys do. I think there’s reason to have pause about him a little bit. I’ve seen numbers about how much better he was in play action scenarios than every other scenario.

Nathan Baird (22:30.711)

Now that’s obviously going to be something Ohio State can use pretty effectively this year, but not to go on a huge tangent about Quinn Ubers. There’s also some baggage there with Quinn Ubers, but that’s just one example. Like I feel like the gap between what I would expect from Will Howard and or potentially Devin Brown is not as big with some of these other guys. But with Carson Beck, I think that the platform that he put last year was already pretty good. And then I think you put him into an offense like this with these kinds of weapons. And it’s not that Georgia doesn’t have weapons.

When you start talking about the receiver weapons you would have at his disposal and this running game foundationally, you could assume that those numbers would probably go up.

Stephen Means (23:11.208)

I consider it quineers for like five seconds because it was really just, there’s a bro where he’s in his second year as Ohio State starting quarterback. That’s the only reason why. That’s the only thing, because I thought Kyle McCoy was better than quineers last year. It’s just Texas plays in the big, played in the big 12 and Ohio State had to play Michigan during the regular season. I want to ask you this before I bring Andrew on this conversation because the, one had Marvin Harrison Jr. but the other one had Brock Bowers. So.

Nathan Baird (23:17.763)

Yeah, he would just already be here, yeah.

Nathan Baird (23:38.503)

Fair, yeah, but, hmm. Well.

Stephen Means (23:40.008)

And I thought about that. Part of it was what did I think was bigger last year in terms of gap? Marvin Harrison, Jr. and who the second best wide receiver in the country was versus Brock Bowers and the second best tight in the country, but also just positional value, because George have probably valued using a tight end like that in that specific offense

very similar to the way that Ohio State just values its receivers in general. So it’s like Georgia had this specific thing and so they maximized it while Ohio State, this is what they do with their wide receivers.

Nathan Baird (24:17.595)

So that’s a fair point. The two things I’d point out, yes, positional value is something here, although Bowers is not, Bowers was used in such a way that sort of equates him with being a number one receiver in a lot of ways. But he.

Stephen Means (24:32.268)

56 catches were 714 and 6 touchdowns. So yeah, very similar. That’s true

Nathan Baird (24:36.539)

But he didn’t have Bowers all season. He missed Bowers for a chunk of the year, which again goes back to comparing those numbers. You see that even if there’s not a huge gap there, there kind of is. When you start to look at who had access to Marvin Harrison Jr., who didn’t then have access to Brock Bowers for about a month of the year, that widens those numbers a little bit more for me. So again, it just sort of reinforces to me that I agree with you about Common Court and Quinn Uris, by the way.

It’s one of the reasons why I think. I mean, Ohio State was better than Texas, but Texas gets to go to the playoff. It’s it’s whatever, but it reinforces to me though that. Um, there aren’t a lot of guys out there who would have been a clear upgrade over what Ohio State is going into this year with, but I think Bauer, I think, um, Beck is, is that guy.

Stephen Means (25:10.166)

Easily.

Stephen Means (25:29.784)

Bowers had those stats and he played 10 games. Jesus, Andrew, what do you think of the addition of Carson Beck as Ohio State starting quarterback in 2024?

Andrew (25:41.918)

I don’t know. I think if we were doing this conversation a year ago, or if we had a quarterback class like the one that we’re about to have, I would have different thoughts. If there was a Caleb Williams here, the offensive side of this conversation would have been, all right, do you like Caleb Williams or Drake May more? Which guy for Ohio State’s offense is going to be the quarterback? And we would have just been debating quarterbacks over, you know, who would start at quarterback?

a sure fire like kind of, oh, this dude’s definitely, you know, the first overall pick. And you’re talking about teams in the NFL tanking for that dude. I just don’t know with quarterback, like, I don’t know if the upgrade is so significant that it’s going to matter. I pulled up an article from pro football network. They did the top 10 rankings for quarterbacks going into.

the 2024 college football season and for the 2025 NFL draft. Listen to this. Carson Beck, Georgia, Chider Sanders, Colorado, Cam Ward, Miami, Jalen Milrow, Alabama, Graham Mertz, Florida, DJ Uonga-Laleh, Florida State, Noah Fafida, I don’t know how to pronounce his last name, Arizona, Connor Wegman, Texas A&M, Jalen Daniels, Kansas, Quinn Ubers, Texas.

That’s their 10. How many of those names are you looking at going, yep, not even close. Will Howard’s nowhere in the vicinity of those guys. 100%, you can’t take that upgrade. To me, none. To me, I’m looking at this going like, why can’t Will Howard do what Carson Beck has done at Georgia where you’re just, you’re surrounded by a great team. You are really efficient. You do things, you don’t turn the ball over. You throw touchdown passes.

You know, you complete more than 70% of your passes. Like, why can’t Will Howard do that? Why can’t Will Howard give them an element on the ground game that, you know, a lot of other quarterbacks maybe don’t do? Like, we haven’t seen Carson Beck really do that a lot. Like, why can’t Will Howard make that kind of jump with a better team? Like, why can’t he be the Carson Beck at Ohio State? So I don’t know. I think when you talk about quarterback, I think quarterback was what I thought I was going to take coming in.

Andrew (28:05.718)

because it’s the most important position on the field. I think it’s why Ohio State was not in the college football playoff last year. I think it’s really easy to kind of lay out and be like, yeah, of course you want to take quarterback, duh. And then I started looking at the names and I went, oh, I don’t think I can do that. So yeah, I just, the quarterbacks that were kind of out there on this magical transfer portal that we’ve created were uninspiring to me. And I just, I was not...

head over heels about any of them. I think there are certainly flashes. I mean, Quinn Ubers has a heck of a lot of talent. I mean, forgetting the whole like Ohio State past thing, like, oh, he’s got a heck of a lot of talent that, you know, that would be really, really fun to see. You know, you did see Chaudhuri with a lot of talent at Colorado this year. He can move a little bit and he had zero help from his offensive line. So, I mean, like, if you think Ohio State’s offensive line was bad, please go watch Colorado’s offensive line.

Um, so like there were, there were options. I just, I was not sold on any of them. And that is why I did not.

Nathan Baird (29:14.375)

Yeah, Beck was the only one on my list, but there’s also a reason why I didn’t pick quarterback when I looked at this. I think I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.

Stephen Means (29:25.624)

Yeah, this is the back pick was more of a because I know what he is. And so I don’t have to worry about it. Conversation more than a upside. Can this guy win a Heisman Trophy conversation? And for the record, if we were doing this conversation a year ago, I probably would not have picked quarterback. I would have gone with it off its tackle because that’s.

mainly because Nathan we had watched the offensive line get mollywopped for multiple practices by the defensive line. So I would have been, my order would have been Joe Ault, Oluf, Shanu and then let’s go five, three, four and five and six.

Nathan Baird (29:56.603)

Same tackles, although not really. Simmons wasn’t here last spring, so we didn’t see him last spring. Man, he’s just such a... Simmons is such a crucial guy. This is like a big spring for him. Didn’t have a spring last year, and obviously didn’t start great last season. Making that switch, I mean, it’s tough. Your switch inside’s the line, you’re leveling up, it’s not easy. And..

Stephen Means (30:00.107)

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (30:26.535)

There was progress made and I think that now though, it’s gotta be a little bit more tangible. Like we have to start, like I hope we get to see soon, although at any point, but preferably soon, like what this defensive line looks like going against this offensive line right now. Cause last spring that told us a lot. And if we can get to see it this spring, it can also tell us a lot.

Stephen Means (30:53.244)

It would be very beneficial if he’s in the first team all big 10 level player in 2024. Very beneficial. And.

Nathan Baird (31:01.423)

Well, Josh Friar was first team all-Big Ten level last year. I don’t know that that-

Stephen Means (31:04.412)

Yeah, but like from the coach, that was us, the media made him first team. I think the coaches had him third team, if I’m getting that correctly, but actually be at an all first team, all big 10 level, not just because we voted you that way. We know how the voting goes sometimes, but that’s our offensive guys. Andrew went with Will Campbell, the left tackle from LSU. Nathan went with Colston Loveland, the tight end from Michigan. And I went with Carson Beck, the quarterback from Georgia. We’re going to take a quick break and then we’re going to flip sides of the ball where I think

It was probably more difficult. So and you had to really pinpoint who you wanted to go with here because I’ll say has just less Question marks and on defense in terms of upside. So we’ll get into what that is next here on Buckeye Talk.

Stephen Means (31:52.66)

And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk. Get the text 614-350-3315. If you’ve got ideas of people that if you could add one player from an

Opposing team to a house its roster for the 2024 season offense or defense Who would you choose hit us up six one four three five? Oh three one five two week free trial 399 after that We just did offense and now we’re gonna do defense and which means we’re letting anything go first this time I like going last. I just like seeing where you guys heads are at before I make my picks Nathan Obviously this was probably a lot more difficult simply because there’s not less places where you probably are Interested to upgrade in the first place just because all the talent Ohio State’s defense brought back

I mean, heck, if we were doing this in December, we probably would have picked Caleb down. That’s an option. And now we can’t do that because he’s here. Just take us through your process of where you ended up with and who you ended up with.

Nathan Baird (32:44.283)

Well, yeah, so the real answer here might be like, just nobody. Like, why would you mess with this? Like what they’ve put together here through returning talent and the transfer portal and potentially like some important development guys coming into their third year. Um, it could be just the perfect mix as it is. Um, but that’s a bad podcast. So I actually thought this was pretty easy cause there’s really like one position and then

Stephen Means (32:47.595)

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (33:12.863)

one guy who I thought was maybe the standout guy there. So I’d be curious if we all were just sort of pinpointing the same person, but the one thing that you can look across 11 spots or the rotations and say, Iowa State doesn’t necessarily really have right now, it’s just like a big wall of a defensive tackle, like a big, just huge guy to put in the middle of that defensive front. So I took Dion Walker, the defensive tackle from Kentucky, he’s actually a Michigan guy from Detroit, but he’s 6′6″, 348. And...

Ohio State’s got some big dudes up front, but they don’t really have 6′6″, 348 right now. Not a lot of people do. Additionally though, as much as you would maybe assume that means he’s a run stopper, which he is, he’s also been able to get in the backfield. He’s also been disruptive against the pass. So it would be, you know, someone who’s right now projecting to maybe be in a first round conversation next year as a defensive tackle and just plopping that sort of talent down in the middle of what Ohio State already has. Now you start talking about.

being able to go to players like Hiro Kanu and Cade McDonald and Tywin Malone, whoever else, as like your fourth and fifth options in that rotation, fourth, fifth, sixth, that starts to get really sick beyond what is already a pretty sick defensive projection for this season.

Stephen Means (34:29.772)

So Dion Walker as an interior guy for Kentucky this past year, 55 tackles, 12 and a half tackles for loss, seven and a half sacks, two pass breakups. I mean, he’s Kentucky’s Tyler Williams, basically. So, and Mike Hall, like mixed together will also be like five inches taller and like 60 pounds heavier.

Nathan Baird (34:46.939)

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (34:50.779)

Yeah, no, Ty Leek didn’t do that. I mean, Ty Leek had a great year. He didn’t do seven and a half sacks and twelve and a half TFLs and at six at six three forty eight.

Stephen Means (34:54.346)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (34:59.2)

Like that’s the SEC prototypical interior guy, these large human beings who are explosive on the interior. I mean, Georgia made a living off of that when they won their two national championships. Kentucky’s got a guy like this in Deon Walker. I love this pickup, Nathan, one, because it raises an already high ceiling for a defensive tackle room. While also, if you’re looking for flaws, we did a video a couple of weeks ago talking about one of them just may be.

If Ohio State just doesn’t have the interior defensive line depth to get to a 17 game regular season, just because you’re asking Tylek Williams and Ty Hamill to tend to play a high level of snaps every single week. I mean, this solves this problem while also you’ve got another guy who’s a potential playmaker, Andrew, any consideration for you to Deon Walker?

Andrew (35:47.99)

Yes, but I don’t want to give away too much of my lists So yes, there was consideration. I did not pick him but there was consideration I think We can get into my reasons here in a minute But I think you can probably tell which position I picked With with the way that I’m talking about this. So yes, I considered him but I did not I did not take him specific

Stephen Means (36:15.636)

Okay, so who’s your take?

Andrew (36:17.338)

Yeah, I picked Mason Graham, defensive tackle out of Michigan. And frankly, the tiebreaker for me was that he went to Michigan. I think that when you look at, you know, maybe, you know, what could help Ohio State, I thought of this as you know what? Mason Graham for Tony offered the trade is one for one. You’re just going to add a guy. I mean, Mason. And a walk on exactly a player to be named later.

Stephen Means (36:42.26)

And the walk on, linebacker.

Andrew (36:47.65)

So I mean Mason Graham was listed at 6, 3, 18. That would give you some serious size. Tyler Williams was 6, 3, 27 during the course of the year. He’s just a huge body that can really just kind of anchor in that front. He was second team All-American. This is a guy that you feel really good about in terms of just plugging up the middle. And.

I think NFL teams are starting to come around to this. And I think you’re starting to see some college teams come around this too. I think for years, there was always this con like this conversation of, Oh, well, you need great edge rushers, right? You need, you need great, you know, guys that can rush off the edge. Well, it’s actually a hell of a lot harder to help on protection at the interior of the offensive line. Right. If you have a one-on-one matchup with a guard, what’s the difference between a one-on-one matchup with a tackle? Take the best player, right. And put the best player on the field. So.

For me with Mason Graham, I mean, you’re talking about a guy who, I mean, he’s not a super pass rusher of the quarterback. He had three sacks last year for Michigan. He only had, when you look at his tackles, he only had 35 total tackles. That’s a guy that can just plug up the middle. And with those two in, I mean, who’s running up the gut on Ohio State? No one, literally no one, because you’re terrified to do anything with that defensive line that they would have. So yeah.

I went with Mason Graham just because of that size and that ability to just kind of anchor down in the front. I also considered Howard Cross at Notre Dame. He was originally who I picked. And then I went, you know what? Mason Graham is bigger and he also goes to Michigan. So I’m going to take Mason Graham because you actually look at some of the backup stats and stuff like that.

Andrew (38:43.478)

with he and Tylek Williams at the front of this defense, up the gut with JT Tumaloau and Jack Sawyer on the edges. I mean, this is like, that’d be a Georgia level defensive line. Like that’d be an absolute, just ridiculous front four to have. So yeah, the kid out of Michigan, Mason Graham.

Stephen Means (39:06.624)

So Nathan, BFF, I’ve been mentioning them periodically throughout this, they had Deion Walker and Mason Graham as their top two guys. Mason was number one, Deion was number two in that situation. Maybe this is putting hairs a little bit. What was the decision to go with Walker over Mason Graham in this situation?

Nathan Baird (39:24.435)

I just wanted that massive size. I mean, again, you’re looking for attributes that Ohio State can’t necessarily replicate. And as much as they have, like, you can check every box on this defense, really. That’s like the one thing they maybe don’t have. And not a lot of teams have 6′6″, 3′48″, who can move like this guy can. That was just what I was thinking. That it starts to become, you can get, on offense, it’s more about any productive player at a couple of positions.

Cause like we threw out names of like, you know, potential first round left tackles. Well, you could go a tier below that and get guys that would still be a help to Ohio State on that offensive line, right? But that’s not necessarily true on defense. You’ve got enough like true NFL talent on this defense that you can afford to be a little bit more precise with it and say, oh, okay, well.

Nathan Baird (40:19.791)

within this rotation that’s already gonna be pretty good. Here’s like a rotational piece, rotational tool that they don’t have right now, that kind of size. That’s how I looked at it.

Stephen Means (40:30.744)

This is for you, Andrew, same question. Why Mason Graham over Dion Walker?

Andrew (40:36.482)

the size. I think the ability to anchor on the run, I think that that’s really important. You know, with JT and Jack on the edges, I mean, those are two guys that you feel great about winning one on one matchups. And if you can just plug the middle up, I considered linebacker here. But if you plug the middle up like with that with two guys that are above 325, that helps you linebackers. Yeah.

Right? Like, like if linebacker is an area where you’re looking at this going, all right, well, who’s going to start? I mean, you got Cody Simon, but then can Sonny pick up the position? Can CJ Hicks pick up the position? How do you feel about life? Well, OK. How about just having no offensive lineman able to scrape through and get to the second level because you’ve got two guys there. So the run stuffing ability, I think, was big with him, but also the ability to get after the passer and be a little bit more mobile.

I think that when you look at both of those attributes kind of paired together, I like to gram the best.

Stephen Means (41:39.304)

So I did go with a linebacker here, and it’s because it’s literally the only position I have actual questions in terms of its starters, right? I have no questions or worries about Ohio State starting cornerbacks. Caleb Downs being added to this mix means I have no questions about his starting safeties. It’s going to be Lathan Rantz and Caleb Downs and Jordan Hanco*ck on the interior, Denzel Burke and Davidson Iggman-Oson on the outside. In fact, I...

would be confident if neither one of them existed. And it was just Jermaine Matthews and Calvin Simpson Hunt. I’d be interested a little bit more because you’re talking about two very new guys and only one of them has played, but I wouldn’t be necessarily worried. And I think this defensive line is one of the best in the country, even if you are concerned about the depth a little bit. So you guys are adding depth pieces.

I went with one of the only players, there were six linebackers who earned all-American status from one of the five major one major all-American teams last year of I think only one or two came back this year. And one of them’s from Iowa. It’s Jay Higgins. He had 171 tackles last year and five tackles for loss two to two sacks and interception for pass breakups and one for swamble and two fumble recoveries. It’s, and it’s, it’s.

I’m not, I don’t know if I’m worried about Sonny Styles being able to pick up linebacker or if CJ Hicks is ready and year three as a former top 10 recruit in the country, if they’re ready to do it, it just comes down to this guy has proven he can be an all American. And when you pair that with Cody Simon, who has for the last three years of his career had a prominent role, whether as a starter or as the third guy in that wheelhouse, I went there because just like with Carson Beck on offense, it’s, it’s not so much about me being concerned about what’s already

on the roster. It’s me having one more thing.

Stephen Means (43:24.508)

I’m sure about because they’ve already shown it. I also considered Abdul Carter as a guy who had, I think he took a step back at Penn State in his second year, but that first year, he was pretty lively. And I thought, I think I picked him this past year to be the big 10 defensive player of the year because of that. But I think a lot of what he does is very similar to what would make CJ Hicks good if he does pop this year. And so I wanted to go with more of a guy who’s pure linebacker skill and 171 tackles, man. Nathan, that’s production on a defense

in the country and in the big tab.

Nathan Baird (43:57.635)

Yeah, you know, the 171 tackles, who knows? Like some of that is a reflection on how much you play. No, I mean, it’s some of it’s a reflection on the fact that, I mean, how many games did Iowa have where its starters only played two and a half to three quarters as opposed to how many times Ohio State did, like those sorts of things. But you start looking at things, I think I had, you know, the way he was able to get some pressures along with all those tackles, I mean, it...

Stephen Means (44:03.724)

Hello there, all the people.

Stephen Means (44:12.76)

That’s fair.

Nathan Baird (44:26.723)

It looks like a, a Tommy Eichenberg 2022 type of performance. And I think maybe the reason I didn’t go linebacker is that I’m, there’s a part of me that’s curious if Jim Knowles can get that out of Cody Simon. Um, I’m not saying 171 tackles in an all American performance, but you know, Tommy Eichenberg was like a second team, all American guy. And I don’t know that Cody Simon is incapable of that.

kind of performance. And beyond that, then you, if you’re saying, well, if it’s not him, why is it not him? Is it because one of these other guys who is like super talented, that’s sort of been waiting in the wings, does one of them sort of force the issue? That doesn’t look like something Ohio State’s thinking about right now. It looks like they’re all but inked in. Cody Simon is the Mike Linebacker on opening day, and I get that. But we’ve talked before about being lost on the roster before for guys.

And like, it’s weird to look at a guy like Gabe Powers, who was a four star, I think he was number 101 in the consensus for the 2022 class. And he’s going into his third year and it’s like, oh yeah, Gabe Powers. He’s already kind of in a lost on the roster position almost where he’s, you know, probably gonna be in the too deep, but certainly behind someone like Simon by every indication. Even though Jim Knowles was talking about him last week, two weeks ago in a...

Nathan Baird (45:53.147)

very complimentary way. So there’s so much talent at linebacker that I get what you’re saying about the lack of certainty there in a way that you don’t have with Denzel Burke, Lathan Ransom, Davis Nygman-Osen, Tylee Williams, the ends. Yeah, I get that. But I don’t know if there’s a lack of certainty about the depth of talent at the position overall, and that there’s probably a solution lurking in there.

Stephen Means (46:23.836)

Certainty and confidence, right? There’s a lack of certainty, but there’s probably not a lack of confidence. That’s probably the fair way to talk about the linebacker. Andrew, any consideration to any linebacker?

Nathan Baird (46:30.655)

Yeah, I could see, yeah, yeah.

Andrew (46:35.87)

A little bit, but then I just went back to what I said earlier, where it’s like, I think if you were to take another position, you’re making the linebackers job easier. And I think you have the talent in that room and the depth in that room to kind of figure it out. You know, like, do you have the depth and talent and I mean, the defensive line room? Yeah, yeah, probably. I mean, Ty Hamilton is a starter. You probably feel good about that with Cade McDonald and Jason Moore and Hirakunu and all these other guys that are kind of coming up on the rear. Like you feel.

good about those guys as depth pieces. But I think if you were to add in another elite defensive lineman, I mean, do you ever have to blitz like if Mason Graham was on this Ohio State defensive line? How many blitzes does Jim Knowles have to call in 2024 to be able to get consistent pressure on the quarterback?

I don’t know, like not as many. And I think that if you’re able to do that with the corners that you have, with the safeties that you have, and all of a sudden you’ve got, you know, four dudes who are like genuine, like first team, all American level talent. To me, that is just saying, hey guys at Linebacker, don’t screw it up. Like just...

exist in the ecosystem. There’s a Friday Night Lights quote that I love where he, Brian Chavez is talking to Mike Quinchley, goes, all you got to do is exist in those two seconds before getting the booby the ball. That’s all you got to do. And that’s all the linebackers would have to do in that scenario. All you got to do is exist. You just can’t let tight ends run amok over the middle and everything else is going to be fine because quarterbacks aren’t going to have a lot of time to throw the ball.

The defensive line is going to make sure opposing offenses wouldn’t run the ball. Your corners are so great that they’re going to shut down opposing receivers. You have Caleb Downs in the back end. He’s maybe the best player on this defense already. You have Lathan Ransom as well. Like you got NFL dudes all over this defense and linebacker being the only question mark. Yeah, it doesn’t make sense to say, you know what? Let’s just add a linebacker and let’s maybe shore this up or a guy with more experience. And you know, it’s Cody Simon and insert partner here. Yeah, I get that logic.

Andrew (48:44.086)

But to me, I just thought, you know what? I think the upside of Mason Graham and the upside of a defensive lineman or defensive tackle in general is higher. Because if you do add that guy, I mean, you’re just taking more and more things off of these linebackers’ plates. And then if you need to add them, you need to add them as they go along. But at the beginning of the year, I mean, they wouldn’t have to do very much. They would be very bored.

Stephen Means (49:12.716)

So any, anybody else, any honorable mentions that guys wanna throw out there, guys that get at least considered as potential additions in this fairytale transfer portal ad.

Andrew (49:22.826)

Did any of you guys consider corner? Because I did very briefly as like, what if they went and got a dude that is a high level like impact first. I didn’t really look into corner too much, but I thought about it like, what if you could just add a guy who could play in the slot that has like first round potential? Like, is that enough over, you know, Jordan Hanco*ck to just be like, you know what, Denzel Burke, Davis and Ibn Nosen,

insert dude here who’s a first-round level player. I don’t know

Stephen Means (49:56.681)

What slot has first round potential?

Andrew (50:01.378)

It doesn’t have to be a slot per se. It could be a dude who could play in the slot. Like you can play, you can be an outside corner that plays in the slot. Like Emeka Buka is an outside corner that can play in the slot. You know what I’m saying? Like you can find guys that can do different things.

Stephen Means (50:02.478)

Oh, right.

Stephen Means (50:09.089)

Jordan Hanco*ck.

Nathan Baird (50:13.251)

No. No, no, no. Amekabuka is a wide receiver.

Stephen Means (50:17.268)

That’s correct. Yes. If he, yeah, he’s not Jordan Hanco*ck and outside a corner who plays in the slot. He’s like six foot two hundred ninety five pounds. I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t, I didn’t consider corner at all. You got, I mean, Denzel Burke might be a first round draft pick next year. Davidson, Ibn Nosen, I don’t know. At worst is it’s late second round draft pick when you take that size in his production. I don’t know if Jordan Hanco*ck, just because he’s a sly guy, is a first round draft pick, but he’s a day to pick. So no, no.

Nathan Baird (50:48.243)

I mean, I think that’s a good example of where who would you go get that Ohio State couldn’t pretty much just do the same thing from within its own roster right now? You’re talking about taking like a young, talented outside corner and giving them time in the slot. Well, that might be what Ohio State has to do this year for some reason Jordan Hanco*ck can’t play.

Andrew (51:12.413)

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (51:14.427)

So, and the guys that they’re gonna be picking from are like former top 50, top 100 prospects. So that dynamic might play out this year, but obviously doesn’t have to go to a waiver wire to do that. It might be coming from within what they already have on the roster. One position I did think about was not offense or defense, but it was kicker. It was special teams. And to go and get, you know, is the, and actually, so the name that I found was,

Andrew (51:34.262)

I’m taking one.

Nathan Baird (51:42.695)

Graham Nicholson from Miami of Ohio, who was the Grozo Award winner last year. And why isn’t he at Ohio State? This is what we always thought the transfer portal might be for Ohio State, which is like, you’ve got a guy at that, you know, a guy at the mid-major group of five level, and Ohio State’s like, we’ve got an okay kicker, but we could really use like an elite kicker to come be on this potential national championship team. And there’s a guy who is

Andrew (51:56.461)

Yeah, yeah.

Nathan Baird (52:12.215)

like a quarter tank of gas away, who could just come here and be the kicker on Ohio State’s potential national championship team. And he’s already one of the best in the country, the guy that they voted the best in the country last year. He’s just, and so, you know, more power to him. He wants to be loyal or whatever, but I be like, is, are we not, is, I’ll say not like floating some NIL money out there for kickers too.

Stephen Means (52:38.676)

You’re starting tied in next year is from the Mac. So why can’t your starting kicker be from the Mac? He 27 of 28. He missed a 40 yarder at one point this year. He he made a 50 yarder. I figured now he’s one for three in his career at 50 yard field goals. But also this is college football. It’s not normal for college kickers to be making 50 yard field goals. That’s why the college kickers are not pro kickers, but he has made a 50 yarder in his career and you can’t blame this little partner for me because he’s not here. I I’m with you, Nathan. He they probably should. I mean, the kids from Cincinnati.

Andrew (53:09.443)

So.

Nathan Baird (53:09.487)

Yeah, I will say it’s the one thing I would look for though. Again, does that fit the qualifications of it’s nice that he won the Groza award. It’s an accomplishment. He’s a good kicker, but does it fit the criteria of elite skill? Like you’re, you’re upgrading to an, a more elite level. It’s like, you know, 27 to 28. That’s very accurate. It’s kind of what Noah Ruggles did. This guy having the added thing where he did make a 50 yard field goal. Um, but.

Like I never thought of Noah Ruggles as like an elite kicker. Like one of those guys who are like, people are talking about like early day three draft picks on the guy or whatever. You know what I mean? Like that’s what Ohio State needs to find its way back to. And those guys are not, you’re not gonna have those continuously probably. But it’s been a while since they had that. It’s been a while since they had even a draft pick at kicker. And they’re not, they’re uncommon, but they’re not non-existent.

It would be nice at some point if Ohio State could find its way back to that level of kicker.

Andrew (54:12.29)

So a couple of different points. Just real quick to go back to the corner point, I wanted to add this because the guy that I was thinking of was Travis Hunter. It’s like, is Travis Hunter enough of an upgrade to play in the slot? That was the guy that I was gonna add that I was like considering. So that was the corner point. But do you guys remember a couple of weeks ago or whenever it was, I don’t know, time runs so close together. And I said I would never use a scholarship.

coming out of high school on a kicker, I would just go find a transfer portal kicker every year that I needed to. Think that this would qualify. So I would just go find the best kicker in the group of five or the best kicker in Virginia or at Western Michigan or wherever, I would just go find a kid in the transfer portal every single year. And yeah, I do like that poll a lot. I think that would be.

you know, a really interesting ad, but I feel like it is my duty as an Ohio University alum not to take a Miami kid. So I can say it’s a good idea and then not take it.

Stephen Means (55:21.036)

I’m action, baby. I’m action. I just I think I think they need reliability at Kicker. And I’m with you, Nathan. It would be nice if they got back to the days of Mike Nugent. Even like all Bill has made a 50 yarder and he was pretty reliable in his career. But if they can just find a guy who I mean, nine of ten from 40 yard or more range, I think is the more impressive thing of his 28 one, because sometimes you just kind of have to keep a 40 yard field goal.

Stephen Means (55:49.1)

when you’re playing these good football teams. And nine out of 10, that lets me know that you, I feel comfortable if the game comes onto the line and we have to put it in your hands. While with Jaden Fielding this past year, five of eight from 40 yard range, 16 of 20 overall. Now Jaden Fielding only missed one extra point, while Graham Nicholson missed two of them. So, but that’s, you know, you’re crossing eyes and dotting T’s at that point. I just, they need to get to the point where it’s reliable.

at all times in those situations because there have been too many times over the last couple of years where it feels like we’re putting the game in the hands of a field goal kicker and you’re not all the way sure that they’re going to make the field goal or even come close to making the field goal because I mean two of the last three seasons ended.

on field goals. The Rose Bowl, obviously they made that one, but that was also like a 20 yard field goal. Then obviously what happened in the Peach Bowl where he’s taking a 40 plus yarder and we’re all looking at each other like, yeah, there’s no way this is going in. And they like died halfway in the air. They need to get away from that. And then we can start getting back to the place of, hey, where’s your Mike Nugent’s? Where’s your Grozer Award winners? I think that’s a good pool. That’s a good pool. That’ll wrap up this pod less than an hour. Listen, we’re back into the groove of things though. Spring break is over. Ohio State gets back on the field on Tuesday to go through practices three through 15 as they continue to work their way and prepare for the 2024 regular season. Quarterbacks, wide receivers, corners, defensive tackles, linebackers, offensive line, we’ll be talking all of that. We’re not going to be watching practice in person this week, but we are still scheduled to talk with people, talk with Ryan Day about Tony Alford’s departure, talk with some assistant coaches about how their rooms are coming along and talk with different players. So get the text 614-350-3315.

Stephen Means (57:32.865)

after that for Nathan Baird and for Andrew Gillis, I’m Stephen Means and that was Buckeye Talk.

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